chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I felt more informed, and I felt that that was what I needed in my head to see you know, that I've got to accept now that this, all these things are real on the screen and this was really my baby that's suffering all these things [sighs], but I was sad as well. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. We strongly advise readers not to take drugs that are not prescribed by your qualified healthcare provider. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. And, so they sent me home at that stage because they said the specialist wasn't available till the following day, which was awful. Thick milky discharge at 14 weeks.tmi pic attached. It would have been nice to see someone straight away because I was in such shock. I couldn't really believe what they were saying. An hour passed and I started to panic. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. Abortion has never raised any moral dilemmas for me and I am an atheist, so there are no religious issues. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. Actually you could tell from the brain development as he scanned up through the chambers of the brain, that one quarter of the brain, one chamber was not evident. Again, we weren't understood. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. My partner spent the weekend trying to convince me that things were OK. He was tiny, perfect and a Down's syndrome baby. Scans cannot find all conditions. . Yeah, yeah. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me, "it didn't look good" and that "my womb looked raggedy". I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. Some parents wondered if it was possible to have the same scan done at 16 weeks rather than 20 weeks. There were also two spots on his heart, which were "soft markers" for Down's syndrome. And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. They would then re-test me in two days time. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. Anyway we went in for the meeting with the consultant on this particular time, and we'd got to, I was 30 weeks pregnant by then. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. She didn't say at the time that it was a major problem or that it was something to watch out for. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. I think at that time she had come to terms better with the fact that this baby was going to be terminated, and I don't think I was quite there. So we gave up and said we'd arrange the funeral ourselves. I endured 12 hours of medication and in the early hours February 7, 56 days after my first scan (at nearly 18 weeks), I miscarried our babies. And it was then because we were at 20 weeks by this point, there was only fairly short window to actually, to get some more tests done, find out what the problems were, and then make any decisions that might have to be made. And then all of a sudden, I was still laughing and we were all very upbeat, and then suddenly, he suddenly said, but I was still, still laughing, and he said to me, 'Oh, there might be a problem, there might be a problem with the, I think this baby has hydrocephalus'. You might be offered another test to find out for certain if your baby has one of the conditions. Sometimes a post mortem was needed to confirm the 20-week diagnosis to see if the baby had inherited a genetic problem (such as Fowler syndrome - see 'Resources'). It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan. x. She describes having to make a . If necessary, you will be referred to a specialist, possibly in another hospital. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. That he - I think I was 21 weeks and 3 days, and he was coming up at 19 weeks and 4 days, or something like that. I think they perhaps could have done, if they had looked a bit closely. We would terminate the pregnancy. We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. I managed to tell my mum, who said she would come with us to the hospital. No, we really didn't, with hindsight we probably should have, but not at all, it never occurred to us to be worried about it. To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account. I couldn't have the added responsibility for changing his mind. Instead, we were shown to a room slightly away from the rest of the ward and the midwife stayed with us to talk through what was going to happen. The following is a quote from their report: If the scan reveals either a suspected or confirmed abnormality, the woman should be informed by the sonographer at the time of the scan. You may like someone to come with you to the scan appointment. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. So on the Monday we went in to see the senior sonographer, I think she was a consultant at the hospital. It went from bad, to worse, to worse, to dire, then to better. I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. I believed at this point I had miscarried, they wanted me to come back I'm for a follow up scan. We had to discuss what we wanted to do with the little body after delivery. Enough for two weeks after he had been cremated. We didn't name him. It is extremely rare for these pregnancies to reach term as they typically spontaneously miscarry early in pregnancy. And at that, I let out a scream I think. We were convinced everything would be OK. Slightly marked from our peers. 13/12/2020 20:45. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. The "why me?" And they, sort of two of them were looking at the scan machine and then they sort of switched everything off and said, 'Oh, I think we have, might have a problem'. But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Your mind has closed to the possibility that there could be anything wrong. . Where we have identified any third party copyright information you will need to obtain permission from the copyright holders concerned. After the triple test you stop thinking, you stop thinking that anything can go wrong. I felt empty, scared, guilty and incredibly heartbroken. Again, no notes can have been written down because the midwife asked the same question. Not a good sign in a hospital consulting room. And that, that was when things where it started going a bit wrong. You get extra care and monitoring as appropriate and baby is proactively treated. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. What happens at the second midwife appointment? Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and . We were told to go to the hospital immediately. What were babys measurements at 20 week scan? Have I misunderstood what's going on?' We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. Desperately trying to hold onto the glimmer of hope we'd been given. Last updated July 2017. I then had to wait in the room along with many other patients for an hour so they could observe me. I get terribly irritated by my close friends and family. And thank God I did. You do not have to have the scan. For many other women, the 18-20 week scan was the point at which they discovered the baby had serious problems. I pray it's just her heart but I can't see anything else is wrong as I have been scanned by a consultant since I was 14 weeks and every time he has said everything looks okay and she is growing consistently. I give pregnant women dirty looks. And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. And they took me to another room and they explained that the baby had what they thought was ventriculomegaly or something. Tissue paper will be tucked around your clothing to protect it from the ultrasound gel, which will then be put on your tummy. I think there might be a problem'. Seeing your baby on a screen can be really exciting. No, you couldn't see there was anything wrong. A company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales company number 3266897. I was experiencing some light bleeding for the past few days. 'I was having nightmares and panic attacks. After half an hour of lying on the bed, I was starting to get nervous, but was excited to find out that the baby would be a boy and that I could see his little heart beating strongly. At first, I still had to deal with the physical implications of having given birth. 'Soft markers'. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. And I am slowly coming to terms with what has happened. I just want to be normal again. I tried to show him the notes and the photos. I took my vitamins, stuck to the healthy diet and put on a brave face. And you know, we were laughing and joking. We, I was with my mum, and they scanned and found choroid plexus cysts on the brain, which is just a mark, it's a marker on the brain, it's a, what they call a 'soft marker'. From losing my dad to his battle with cancer, to then having to face another battle with cancer and my mum; thankfully she pulled though. And I thought that if I were faced with the possibility of having an amnio, hours of discussion would follow - I would spend days mulling it over. The scan will find about half (50%) of those babies who have heart defects. I want to enjoy my son again, without any reservations. And the doctor - because it was a doctor rather then just the, a sonographer or whatever the correct term is - was scanning my wife, and she hovered over the heart of the baby and said, 'Oh there's the heart, we'll come back to that'. And everybody knows and everything is right. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. By my own hand, I had to end the pregnancy. And nothing prepares you at all. Being deeply unhappy and kind to others at the same time is nigh on impossible. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. For example, you may be offered further tests that have a risk of miscarriage. So he went out for a walk. The same rush of excitement. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. The people who did know what was going on seemed far too sure that we were doing the right thing, that there was really no choice to be made. All women are offered a dating scan, and an 18- 20 week fetal anomaly ultrasound scan, in line with NICE and UK National Screening Committee recommendations. Had 34wk scan last week and all is well - of all the babies found to have a two vessel cord, was told less than 6% experience any growth issues etc. However, at the time neither of us could articulate that. So when that happened to us I really didn't worry, I thought, you know, it was literally the baby was in awkward position, they couldn't see the heart and that was why. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. Well, at the regional hospital it was a 3-D scan. He sounded like a wild animal in pain, deep pain. But he was not sure. It's, I mean you can't tell from these scans what you're looking at really, but I remember thinking, 'it just doesn't look quite right' or something, but I didn't give it much thought. I swallowed the tablet and we left the building. I mean, you just, you're just overwhelmed, it's so much fun. It was, 'Oh we'll come back to that'. So it was just, we were coming up to the 20-week scan and I was just getting more relaxed, just actually starting to look at maybe baby catalogues or, you know, going down the baby aisle at the shops, which I'd always avoided. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. You will be able to discuss this with your midwife or consultant. (See. The milk came and stayed for what seemed like for ever. I was sat on the sofa working, my son was at nursery and my partner was in the bath. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. It was positive, and I felt elated. And as, and as soon as I saw the pictures of the scan, having had two normal pregnancies, even I could see that there was a marked contrast between this pregnancy and the pictures that I'd had previously. He suggested he perform an amniocentesis immediately, to rule out any chromosomal problems. It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. Any delay in receiving more information about the abnormality and its implications will be distressing for women and this should be acknowledged. We bought a two tests that evening (quite lucky as I messed the first one up!). 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. And it's like, I really wanted to see it and I didn't, and it was it was very mixed. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. In most cases the scan will show that your baby appears to be developing as expected but sometimes a condition is found or suspected. It's part of our family. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? Went back a week later for the scan and, you were with me for this one, weren't you? We're still not at the end of our journey, but we're much further along. For five months my body had known there was something wrong, yet I had felt fantastic. This article was amended on 24 November 2015 to anonymise the writer. In fact, interestingly enough, going sort of. As I left the room to compose myself. I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. Back on the EPU unit, a doctor organised for me to be admitted into the ward, to take the medical management under supervision as the sac was now to big for me to safely miscarry on my own at home. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. It was another consultant, who said, "I'm afraid I have some bad news - your baby has Down's syndrome." All my instincts were to protect my belly, yet here I was allowing someone to stick a huge needle into it. You're in and out and that was it. So it was quite common, this is what happens. Originally I hadn't wanted to go down that road. The gel makes sure there is good contact between the probe and your skin. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. You know there's always that bit on the bottom of the thing, 'These are diagnostics, do not bring other children,' - blah, blah, blah.. it's not, you know, it's not a family outing kind of thing, but it feels like it. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. But before he could speak, he, too, had broken down. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. The scan was inconclusive, but the size of my little bump was measuring a lot smaller than it should have for 10 weeks. My baby might have Down's syndrome. This was on the Friday. She asked me how far gone I thought we were, and if I could have been mistaken. Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. Many described how sonographers and doctors were very restrained and didn't speak at all until they had analysed all the baby's details. The appointment usually takes around 30 minutes. There was complete silence during the scan. So I was a bit ignorant of the kind of things, you know, what the scans were really doing - maybe it was, a bit na've I think. I didn't want to go through anymore scans. I still feel guilty, I still cry at random times. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. Fine, go on my own. I mean the lady who was scanning was very quiet for a long time. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. Possibly with hindsight we could have been more worried about it, but was probably a good thing we weren't, because we weren't worried about anything basically. But on, in the middle of March, 10th March it was, we had a 20 week scan. My mum arrived early to look after our son, and my partner and I got a cab to the hospital. Not surprisingly, people aren't quite sure how to deal with me. What would we like to do with the body? So I no longer trusted my instincts. With my oldest it turns out she has a minor thing that affects 1 in 1000 of the population and wont harm her at all it's just "there" and with my second the issue turned out to be nothing. But now that's changed. And I wish that I'd been told at that point, that somebody had actually turned round to me and said, 'Look, I'm sorry, but I think there's something very wrong. Three midwives came and went. Purpose of screening. And she said that, you know, as the, if the baby did develop further there would probably be other problems with internal organs that weren't really that visible at that stage. So I suppose from that aspect, mind you having not been told that or sitting there, I wouldn't have thought necessarily that was odd. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. It felt as if we'd gone underground, that we were part of the criminal fraternity. Later, I did see and hold our baby. It seemed inconceivable that we would not be having a baby in May. The decision to terminate the pregnancy was my partner's and mine. We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. So it was, there was very, very little movement from the baby because I remembered first time round by that stage, you know, that the baby was quite big and it moved around a lot at a later scan. I've still had no cramps or bleeding so fingers crossed everything is ok I just couldn't believe I fell down the stairs, I can't remember the last time I ever did that! And of course some other measurements she needed to take like the width of the skull, which she couldn't take because the fetus was in the wrong position. Mm-hm. Entering the labour ward, I waited for someone to say, "Go home, you are 16 weeks too early." Picture every packed football staduim up and down the country - all healthy pregnancies and births. Living in this world must be unbearable for them. Next most likely is that baby doesn't co-operate and they can't see some parts of anatomy and call you back 2 weeks later just because they couldn't see (i had this but because twin pregnancy I was due to be scanned 2 weeks later anyway). Thankfully I was met by an amazing sonographer, she was compassionate and understanding. And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. You've had, you've had your Down's Syndrome check and that's okay. I want to be happy again. When he came back, he agreed on a termination. Instead, I had to raise a glass of water to my mouth, take a swig and swallow the tablet. The next day, it was confirmed that my bloods had again dropped. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. Our position in our families has shifted. I feel empty and incomplete. All the hopes, dreams, and plans we made with our little bumps has been taken away from us. And I said, I was still laughing, and I thought he was joking with me, and he said now I sort of could tell from his face that by that point he wasn't really joking anymore. The consultant explained that this was just very bad luck and not, as far as they knew, genetic. It was real. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. No sort of questions about, 'Do you want to know whether it's a boy or a girl?' He had to come to the decision by himself. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. The baby kicked, blissfully unaware of what I had done. You have rejected additional cookies. I could hardly breathe. I want to be nice again. And they took me into another room. By 7pm, I still hadn't delivered the baby. I was becoming numb to the whole process. We were denying him his life. I had to take a tablet there and then, under the supervision of a nurse, to end the pregnancy. And you could see, where you should have a picture of 4 chambers, you could really see 2. 1. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. I hated my body and hated every feeling I was having. We scattered his ashes over a bunch of snowdrops. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). Just doing it. A long process of blood tests, scans, doctors and hospitals. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. It felt so wrong. I had no issues at my 20wk scan with DD - and neither did any of my antenatal group (9 mums). She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. And even at that early stage it was beginning to sink in that there was something really not right. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. And that was extraordinary to see the detail that that could offer. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). I had an appointment with my consultant 2 days later, and again he said, you know, 'Very common - shouldn't worry about it too much, you know, if, the problem is if they find anything else wrong'. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. Immediately I knew what decision we should take. This does not mean there is anything to worry about. And I'd been on the internet looking up all sorts of things and everything was so negative, it was very depressing, because I thought, 'Well, maybe they've made a mistake, or maybe it's something they can fix, I don't know'. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. Usually, sonographers will ask a senior sonographer colleague to confirm findings and this should be done immediately. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan Having the scan does not hurt but the sonographer may need to apply slight pressure to get the best views of your baby. For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. It is a noise that will stay with me for ever. And the first few things they said it didn't sound as thing, as though things were terribly wrong. How common is it for 2nd baby to come early..? Instinctively, did it feel right? This scan takes place between 18 weeks and 20 weeks 6 days of pregnancy and is commonly called the 20-week scan. Emma was 20 weeks' pregnant when a routine scan revealed that the baby she was expecting had Down's syndrome and heart problems. I know it is still early days. We don't know, but it's not looking good'. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . I was willing the results to be normal. Despite this new discovery, the sonographer was still concerned. I tried to keep positive. The week that followed was an agonising wait. As I lay down, and the sonographer started, I could see there was something wrong. We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. My heart goes out to you OP.

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